Kenny Torres and Gus Hoyas discuss their involvement in the Spanish American Committee's Latino Construction Program.
Kenny Torres and Gus Hoyas discuss their involvement in the Spanish American Committee's Latino Construction Program.
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Tim Linville:Okay. We're here today with a very special guest, Kenny Torres and Gus Hoyas from the Spanish American committees, Latino construction program. Good morning guys.
Gus Hoyas:Good morning, Tim. Well, thanks for joining us. Let's just get right into it. What is the Spanish American committee? Kenny, you want to take that piece for sure.
Kenny Torres:The Spanish American committee is an organization that's been in community for over 50 years. It's a social service program, where we have different programs like workforce program, a social service program, a home buying program and financial literacy program. We also have a childcare program as well. And it's just an organization that, you know, we serve our community and that's what we do.
Tim Linville:Great. And, um, how many and what, what do you define as your community?
Kenny Torres:The Hispanic community. Usually on the west side of Cleveland.
Tim Linville:Okay. Yeah. And it, I thought I heard the other day, I was listening to another podcast about how Cleveland is one of the cities with the most Puerto Rican people in it. Is that true?
Gus Hoyas:That is correct. Yeah. We, uh, actually back in the 1970s, I think we were the second largest city outside of Puerto Rico that had the most condensed Puerto Rican population.
Tim Linville:Wow. Did we get more after the hurricane came through?
Kenny Torres:We did a, we, we got.... We got a lot more after the hurricane came through.
Gus Hoyas:I think at the Spanish American community, we served over 800 families since Hurricane Maria.
Tim Linville:Wow. And what kind of services do you provide there?
Gus Hoyas:Again, the same point to what Kenny was saying, we've been able to provide English second language programs. Some of the folks in Puerto Rico are required to take English, but some have been stayed focused in their Spanish. Um, and you say Spanish culture. So they really haven't broadcast from a standpoint of learning more English and so forth. So we've been able to help them with the English second language house buying programs that we've been able to do and some financial literacy. And um, those are probably the three areas. I think we've stayed concentrated.
Kenny Torres:Right, but primarily employment. Um, you know, when, when our clients came here, that was the first thing they asked for was employment. Um, but there, there was, there were a lot of other things that we had to take care of first, like their immediate needs that they didn't even realize. You know, a lot of them came in from, um, came in to live with their families and you know, when they're live with families, they have a certain amount of time, you know, so it was a housing situation that we needed to take care of first. I remember we were dealing with that a lot and, but it was also too, it's connecting them to, um, medical facilities and making sure that we explained to them that there's a difference here, um, in Cleveland as opposed to a medical system in Puerto Rico. So that was the whole hurdle thing too. And then, you know, we, we focus primarily on employment though. Uh, we wanted to make sure that they, they would be able to, to sustain themselves while, while living here and be able to move out at a certain amount of time.
Tim Linville:Sure. And that's, I assume where the Latino construction program comes into play, right?
Kenny Torres:Exactly. Correct. Yep.
Tim Linville:Well, that's, let's get to that in a second, but I want to hear more about you guys personally. Gus, you're the senior statesman in the, in the room. Tell me about yourself.
Gus Hoyas:Senior statesman. I am not. I, uh, let's see here. I've been involved in the community probably now for the last 22 to 23 years. Um, I probably sat in every nonprofit Hispanic board that we have in our community, chaired most of them, uh, to date. Um, I can tell you that I've been blessed to try to lead the Hispanic Contractors Association, which came about back in 2010 with a convencion, which is basically started through the Hispanic round table of Cleveland. Um, we're a bunch of, I would say folks from the community that still want to give and participate at a high level. We kinda just convene ourselves and talk about our issues. And out of that issue, uh, when I was chairing the Hispanic Business Chamber of Commerce, we thought about, okay, workforce in the construction arena, built all the buildings were going up in Cleveland. There was a lot of, uh, not so much representation of our own in construction. So we kind of said, let's put together a, uh, a thought process. And out of the convencion came the Hispanic Contractors Association. And as we got more involved with construction here in Cleveland, uh, we saw a need of workforce. So all this basically tied in, you know, over the last five years. And one of the biggest, uh, pivotal things that that's happened in our community is the metro, uh, transformational plan, which kicks into a lot of other facets that we got going on in the community. So the Latino construction program, basically, that's where it came from.
Tim Linville:Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's awesome. Uh, the Metro hospital project, that's a multi-year, how many millions of dollars it is?
Gus Hoyas:Close to a billion.
Tim Linville:Yeah. It's got to transform that neighborhood.
Gus Hoyas:Absolutely.
Tim Linville:Yeah. It's exciting. It is a, but Gus, how did you, um, get involved in construction? What's your, what's your, uh, profession?
Gus Hoyas:Well, actually my profession, thank you for asking. My profession is insurance. So I do a lot of small businesses and insure quite a bit of small contractors and it's always good to see how they grow and how you can offer input on not only insurance but safety practices and so forth. But as being a leader heading up the Hispanic Contractors Association, it's one thing led to the other that, um, I kind of filtered myself in and somehow I got to lead it. And right now we're still organizing and, and working through it. So it's all good.
Tim Linville:You're a native Clevelander?
Gus Hoyas:Actually, no. I'm from Bogota, Columbia, but I came here, uh, when I was two years old, I actually came through the doors of the Spanish American community and uh, went through the whole babysitting services and my whole family, uh, went through the programs there. Thus, you know, the reason that I have the passion to serve and stay on the board of the Spanish American Committee.
Tim Linville:Great. You've been here a lot longer than I have. I've been here since 2003. Kenny, what about you?
Kenny Torres:Um, well I was born in Puerto Rico, and we moved to, uh, we originally we moved to Connecticut, Hartford, Connecticut, and we stayed in Tri-state area between Connecticut and New York City for, for about two years. And then we ended up moving here to Cleveland. Um, so, um, you know, we live in the west side of Cleveland, um, right here, actually close to metro health hospital as well. So we live in the west side of Cleveland. And, you know, I started, I kept growing and I grew professionally and, and um, I was in the banking industry for awhile and then I, I realized that banking wasn't my thing and I ended up, um, working for a different organization, a nonprofit organization, and um, you know, I love nonprofit and then an opportunity came across for the Spanish American Committee. So I, so I took it on, but I always, you know, I grew up in a community. I went to all the Cleveland public schools and, um, um, my mother and my parents did a really good job at keeping me with the Hispanic culture. And, you know, we, I grew up in the Hispanic culture, so I encompassed it all. And I remember, you know, when we, when we moved here from Puerto Rico, how hard it was for us to, to, um, to, to, you know, just become sustainable on our own. So I always developed a passion. I always told myself that, you know, whenever I get the opportunity to, to help, I would, especially, you know, my own and it just ended up happening and, and, uh, and here I am.
Tim Linville:That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so how long have you been with the Spanish American Committee?
Kenny Torres:I've been for three years now. Yep.
Tim Linville:And the Latino construction program, that's how old,
Gus Hoyas:so we started in 2017.
Tim Linville:That's right. Yeah. Almost two years old. And so tell me about the Latino construction program. How, how's it going?
Gus Hoyas:What's in my opinion right now? It's going great. We have a got a lot of momentum. Kenny's done a wonderful, but just to give you a little background on the formation of it, again, as I mentioned earlier about the Hispanic round table and the efforts of focusing with workforce. Um, we knew the initiative was coming, the build out for metro and one of the things that Hispanic contractors association always had a struggle was how do we get an entry into the unions more? How do we get our people to understand what a union is? And what dues are and fringe benefits. And we knew that was going to be a major part and actually cea helped with us giving us some credibility, introductions and so forth. At the end of the day, we, and the awarded a Hispanic piece to the project, which was Adrian Maldonado and associates partnered up with Turner and talking to Dr Boutros, one of the things that he made it as a directive was to Gus and Adrian and Al Sanchez, Hey, we've got to have a participation on this. And it's in the community. What are the reality of the numbers? We told them five and five, 5% for contracts and 5% with workforce. And we knew right away where our biggest struggle was going to be workforce. How do we identify, how do we get people into the unions? How do we work with initiatives that are currently going on? Uh, cause it's always been a difficult piece for everybody, not just Hispanics, African Americans and women in the light. So we stayed focused on it and we had, uh, a deep soul search and about, you know, where do we start this effort? And we tried to find the best organization in the community and it came to be a Spanish American Committee. So with that, you know, it took off. We had the opportunity to meet with Ramonita Vargas, who's the executive director, uh, Ramonita welcomed the idea. We put together a solid business plan. Um, everything basically from an RFP perspective, uh, help Turner construction along with Adrian and, uh, Ozanne construction. Like good old buddy Dominic. We put together a solid, uh, inclusion plan. And I think that's what catapult a Turner into winning the project. But after that, uh, we had to get to work and Ramonita, myself and, and Adrian and Al and Kenny who joined us a little bit later after that, we talked about, you know, how we're going to get to this. So with that being said, we, we decided let's focus on workforce. Let's develop a class. And Kenny basically, uh, you know, took off with it from that point forward.
Tim Linville:With the help of you and Adrian and Al Sanchez and others?
Gus Hoyas:Yeah, there was, then we had others. We had basically a key bank helped us a great deal. Lorraine Vega, um, on the monetary and finance side. I think they, they, they kept seeing a need out there in other communities. Um, I think our proposal was pretty well structured about what we're gonna do and how we're going to do it in our community. The Cleveland Foundation helped us out a great deal as well, uh, almost in the total of about 300,000 and we got in funding over a course of three years. Uh, so we're pretty proud of that. Um, so we've been able to kind of tie other resources in our community around this.
Tim Linville:And was that funding for the Latino construction program or for Spanish American Committee in general?
Gus Hoyas:Kind of wrap around services, but a good, I want to say two thirds of that is for construction at least in construction for the funding.
Tim Linville:Um, so, so what does the program consist of Kenny?
Kenny Torres:So the program consists of, it's a six week course and we just, uh, you know, back to Gus point, we just want to make sure our clients understand union and we want to make sure our clients understand the difference between working in construction in their country and working in construction here. So we developed the curriculum, um, you know, and it's OSHA certification too. That's where cea it comes in. And Tim, thanks again. And we just, you know, we just want to make sure we identify the difference, um, uh, for our clients and, and, and you know, it's not the same working in construction and, and your country as opposed to here. So, you know, you don't get connected with a cousin, you know, uh, you have to go through the process here. You know, what's a union, why do you pay union fees, what are your rights? And you know, uh, we also teach, you know, the, the, the workforce stuff. So make sure you show up on time and, and we're completely honest with them. Uh, you know, we say, hey, you know, you're going to be working with, with different demographic here. And, um, and you know, if you, if you come across something and you come across a situation, this is how you handle it. So, you know, we have very honest conversation with our clients and, and I think that's what, that's what kind of is part of the success of the program too. You know, we don't sugarcoat anything and then we're completely honest and direct with them and, and give a sense too that we're, we're there for them and they see Gus in the classes. You know, we have evening classes after work, so they see Gus and Adrian and Al in the classes and we're, we're, we're in 100% and our clients are very receptive to that.
Gus Hoyas:It's awesome. Um, so how many classes have you had? How many people have gone through?
Tim Linville:Yeah, so we've had three classes. We, we try to keep it two to three classes a year. So the first year we started we had two classes and then this year we started our first one and we're going to start another one here in a month and a half. And we usually keep it from 25 to 22. Uh, but we, we, um, we, uh, we start with the 22 clients in our second class. Our first class was 25 and then was 12, but are back to their second class, we started with 25 and two with 22. And our third class, we started with 23 and we ended up with, um, 16 so, so, you know, we were, we expect to drop off. Usually, with all courses, you have some kind of drop off, so we expect that. So it's six weeks, is it five nights a week? Is it, how many nights a week isn't you?
Kenny Torres:Right, it's Tuesdays and Thursdays, usually from five 30 to 8:00 PM.
Tim Linville:Okay. So six hours a week for six weeks, correct?
Gus Hoyas:Great. So you've had, I think you said 50 graduates already, so we've been able to pay us. Well we, we've had, we've been able to place 50 clients into the union since we started and we have a big goal. We want to, we want to place a hundred towards the end of this year. Um, so, uh, you know, we've been very active in that and we keep pushing the needle forward.
Tim Linville:So, um, uh, how have the unions been with you?
Kenny Torres:The unions have been, they've been very receptive to us. Um, I haven't had no issues with the unions and, and they get it, you know, they're, they're all there for it as well too, which is, which is good to see, you know, that they understand that demographics changing a bit and, and, um, you know, they're, they're, you know, they're open to it. And I, whenever I asked them, Hey, can you come here this class and tell her I talked to our clients, they say, yeah, of course we'll be in there. So we've been, we've been having good, uh, good, uh, feedback from our, from our unions.
Gus Hoyas:Yeah. We've, uh, just to add a little bit to that, I think it's been great seeing the, uh, the uptake from the union's participation. Like Kenny was saying earlier, you know, like the Irish and the Italians, you know, we didn't have a godfather. We didn't have, uh, an uncle to bring into the union. So it's one of those things, I think they're seeing a, they want to diversify their diversity right now that who they have, um, with the Ray Valez and, um, uh, Enrique, um, I forgot his last name. We, Gosh, Cruz Cruz. Uh, they've been tremendous. They've been attending these classes and to Kenny's point, he calls the plumber's Union. We had a BA there. Uh, and again, to your efforts here, also the Cea, I mean, you've been tremendous helping us out with that Tim. It's hard to break in here to Cleveland whether. I lived here, god 48 years myself. Um, just bringing somebody in from out of town to really welcome somebody and, you know, trust and change the dynamics. It's hard. It's hard to place that trust in construction. So sure.
Tim Linville:It's a relationship business.
Gus Hoyas:It is very much,
Kenny Torres:and, and it helps to, you know, Wondolowski, head of the trades. He's been, he's been very receptive to the program and he loves, you know, our mission and our focus with this. So, you know, he's, he's been talking to the union and say, Hey, make sure you're there with span am and, and you know, it's been working.
Tim Linville:That's great. And so 50 people are out there working right now.
Kenny Torres:Yes. Uh, you know, we, it's not all have stayed, you know, the, the, the amount of time that we've all wanted to, uh, for them to stay. You know, some of them, they think construction in Cleveland is their thing until they start working there and they say, you know, it's a little different than what I thought.
Tim Linville:My son's getting a taste of that right now, my 19 year old son, he's like, he's like, yeah, I'm going back to college now.
Kenny Torres:Right. Um, but, but we've, uh, you know, our, our retention rate and it's been, we usually track from 30, 60, 90 days, so we're, we're over the 60% mark easy. Um, so, you know, we're proud of that and we calculate their, their rate of pay within a 90 day span. Um, and W we've been able to generate 400 over$400,000 into our community and payroll alone since we started the program. So, you know, we, we want to keep that moving forward.
Gus Hoyas:And I think the other piece too, Tim, uh, it's still a transition into understanding what unions are doing in Cleveland with diversity and the placement. We still have a few more to place out of those classes. And that's what kind of held us up a little bit was when we share, we place them so they market more what we're trying to do. And that's been a little bit of a difficult task. But you know, we're overcoming it cause you know, Kenny's been on it. Um, and more of the Union folks and on Metro we're starting to understand more of the subcontractors that are going to be bidding on for, um, on some of the jobs. And we've been joining those metro, um, diversity inclusion meetings and talking to them. Where's your workforce? So it's, it's, it's kind of tying in.
Kenny Torres:Yeah. Well, um, I don't know if Dr Boutros would want to hear this, but we want, we want your graduates all over the market and not just at his, not just at the Metro job, even though that's critically important, right? We want to integrate your graduates and your clients into the whole workforce? No. Yeah. And we've been doing that. Uh, we, we've had some clients that at some of the downtown projects, and we have, we've had a few clients in our, at the Q organ at the Q as well too. So it's, it's, um, it's fans, you know, more than more than metro. Um, but primarily, you know, w we were focused to the die the boot show's mission and, and, and for community. So, but, but no. Yeah, it's fans. It's spanning.
Gus Hoyas:Yeah. And I think attempt to, the other point of that is I think some of the bigger companies in the area, the turners, that Gilbanes the Donley's, the Independences of the world and those folks, they get it. They know there's a need. Uh, and they're working. I mean, if I tell you this five years ago, boof. Yeah. Okay. Um, but it's come around and I think it's been, uh, an on point. CEA's done a wonderful job continuing to push it through. Um, you know, from a Latino perspective and a leadership perspective, you know, it wasn't all welcoming. Um, it was kind of tough. It was always a challenge to, you know, how do we get to the table, you know, how do we show success? And I think we're starting to show success through the Latino construction program. I think where they're taking us for real, that we do have a community here in Cleveland and it is a young community. I mean, it's a young community and I think some of the opinions have been, you know, these folks legal, you know, are they undocumented? Well, you know, the majority of the folks that we're getting are Puerto Rican. They're American citizens. So, you know, it's, it's a little bit of a misnomer out there and it's a misunderstanding. People need to understand the culture. Um, a little different, just like we're trying to educate our own culture. Um, it's coming around a lot better. So I give it another five, seven years that we continue to do what we do. We'll start making more of a, of a footprint around construction. Probably more people here at cea that looks brown.
Tim Linville:Right. Right. Yeah. Cause lord knows I don't have the brown to bring, I got freckles, but that's about it.
Kenny Torres:No, but, but you're right guys. You know, it's like, like I mentioned earlier, we educate our clients in the, in the culture here in construction, but there's a part to that. We educate our, our, our, our business people and the culture of our clients, you know, and, and you know, and, and we, we run into situations before where, you know, we had to stop in and say, Hey, look, you know, the client didn't mean this. This is what he actually meant. And this is why, you know, this is why he said that, or this is why. So it's a, it's a, it's an educational piece for, for, for everyone. Uh, but that's good. I actually enjoyed doing that. Um, cause that shows that, you know, it's a, it's a very, uh, the market. It's, it's in the beginning stages of changing and, and, uh, we're excited to, to, to what's gonna happen, you know, going forward.
Gus Hoyas:You know, to that point too, they get off this platform a little bit. Um, you know, we, within our culture, that's the thing too, you know, we want to see those succeed, so we want to see those folks succeed. So I think, give an example, an Adrian Maldonado today in construction, you know, here you go. He's on a major project in Cleveland. He's starting to partner with other organizations, other major construction firms. You know, we have those underlying saying, hey, who's out there that we can be mentored by? Talk to, where's the success? Well, there's one, you know, there's one that's moving in that direction. Uh, Mark Rivera, you know, here's a guy has been around for a long time. And he's been doing a lot of good work. He's hired some of his own, uh, he's developed them. He's hired some folks out of our Latino construction program. So that's a good thing. That's a good sign for us in our community, seeing construction. So that that's probably one of the proudest moments is when you start seeing folks succeed and give back. And you know, we saw a lot of that in the African American community, uh, grow and develop. You know, I can name a Mictech, I can name an Ozanne Construction. Um, so I mean that's what we gotta start seeing. So it's, for us it's more of a, um, from a workforce perspective, is a belief that the unions are there, um, they're there to help and it's a career. It's a, it's a game changing moment for some of these folks that if they can understand what's available in Cleveland, they can make a great living.
Kenny Torres:Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, you talk about game changing, you know, we, we've, our clients, if they are working and they want to join the program, usually from what I'm seeing, you know, usually they're at eight,$9 an hour, the most, probably 12. But you know, when we start talking about, you know, the construction path and you know, how rewarding construction can be, and when we finally get these clients place, you know, they're making 1950 and you know, when you go from eight,$9 an hour to 1950 with benefits and the whole package, you know, it's like, you know, I, and my, one of my favorite things is our clients. A lot of our clients come back to the organization just to thank me, just to think Gus just to think Adrian, and Ramonita and Al, and it's a, it's a great feeling. It really is. And you know, that's, but that's what, that's why we're there, you know, that's why we're there. But our clients are very thankful and, and you know, I always tell them, I'm like, don't worry about it. That's our job, you know? That's why we're here.
Tim Linville:So, yeah, that's a great feeling. I, it's gotta be a great feeling for you guys to see these, these people's lives transformed.
Kenny Torres:It is, it really is
Gus Hoyas:really. That's it really. I think that's our gasoline that keeps us going.
Tim Linville:yes. I, uh, I went to your first graduation for the first class last year and it was a very cool to see the men and women get up there and their families were there to support them and, and just the anticipation on their faces of what comes next. And uh, you know, glad to hear a lot of those people are still working in the industry. Yeah. Um, so if I'm an employer who wants to hire someone from one of your clients, how do I do that?
Kenny Torres:Just, just send me an email, give me a call. And, uh, and you know, we, you seen it, Tim, we have a structure in place. Um, you know, we're an, I, I have our clients lists already. I have their trades picked out, I have their experience highlighted. And I also, I think it's good for us to keep it honest on all the way around. And as I tell them what I feel are what we think are some of our clients' weakness, you know, if you know, they have a situation in their background years ago, I'll bring that up. And then, you know, we just want to make sure that that transition when we get our clients places is honest. It's, it's up front and it's seamless, you know, as possible.
Gus Hoyas:So you guys do drug testing?
Kenny Torres:We do not do drug testing.
Gus Hoyas:Something where we're considering, but let me get that. Let me answer that from a marketing perspective, an employer wants to come and see us or talk about workforce. U h, we're located at 4407 Loraine Avenue in Cleveland, 44109, and telephone n umber i s(216) 961-2100. You can ask for a Kenny Torres or Ramonita Vargas.
Tim Linville:Great. Kenny, what comes next for you?
Kenny Torres:Well, um, I've actually accepted a position with the Gilbane building company.
Tim Linville:congrats.
Kenny Torres:Thank you. Uh, but yes, I'll be a project engineer here or come October, But I'm still going to be involved with the program, you know, Gus and Ramonita, Adrian and Al they've been a mentor of mine. So I'm going to be involved with the organization and the program so you know, I'll be around. So come October. Who would you contact or who would an employer contact? Great question. No, we actually in the process now of interviewing some folks. We have some resumes on my desk. I've been in, I've been on vacation here for the, for this fast week, but I already got a list of people that, that um, I'll be calling and reaching out to, to interview.
Tim Linville:Great. Well, uh, for those who are listening, I'm going to put Kenny's contact information and phone number and the Spanish American committee's contact information in the show notes for the episode. And uh, anything else that, uh, Gus and Kenny want to provide me before they leave today or as a follow up, I'll put it in the show notes so that they'll connect those who are wanting to do a little digging on the issue and, and connect with you guys.
Kenny Torres:Yeah. Um, I do want to bring something up. W e're, I think G us highlighted this a nd a little bit ago too, is w e're, we're going to be actually focusing on creating a class f or subcontractors. B ecause of the success of the program. You know, we actually have our clients saying, hey, you know, I remember you guys talking about becoming your own business owner. You know, I wanna, I wanna talk a little bit more about that. I'm interested in doing that and we've actually started developing a curriculum for subcontractors and, but just giving it our own touch, our own f lare to it, u m, because we want to produce, again, subcontractors. So any subcontractors that are, that are out there, t hey're interested i n, i n, in, in this class that we're g oing t o be providing, you know, give me a call, 216-961-2100.
Tim Linville:Great. Speaking of the curriculum, how did you develop it for the LCP?
Kenny Torres:It was a collective effort.
Gus Hoyas:That was a, that was an effort of a very wise man by the name of Al Sanchez and one that's growing with age by the name of Adrian Maldonado and the other two, which were Kenny and myself, just trying to put it together in a, uh, presentation form. But, um, those were base, I think we all sat around for a couple of weeks and said, you know, what, what's the needs, what are the touch points? And you know, how do we, um, you know, get these guys, at least with an introduction to construction. So we had a lot of trust me, we had a lot of heated discussion and a lot of debates about how to do it, what to put in there. And it just kept, keeps growing and it's morphing. So it's changed. So every class is a little different and we just, we kind of modify it a little by little. So, and again, a to Kenny's point and Tim to answer that question about not only the class but the future class for subcontractors, um, that's going to be crucial because I think Dr Boutros made it very clear and I think we're all in agreement that once you build a business, that's where you really build the wealth. You know, you really start standing out. And, uh, one of my biggest issues early on unfortunately with the unions was, you know, how do we get the names, Hispanic names so we can get them into companies, into forming them, how to teaching them how to form an LLC, how to get into an s corp, um, and take advantage of some of the grants, uh,$10,000 grants that were going on for a, I forgot the name of the, uh, uh, programs we had, but either way. Uh, and that was really hard to do. And I think I'm seeing a lot of the construction that's going on to Kenny's point out of the class, we're just getting folks saying, Hey, I want to have my own plumbing company, a residential, commercial, whatever it may be. But they understand if everybody's playing with the union rates, there's more money and so forth. So that's something that again, we're, we're working through and it's been an ask in our community.
Kenny Torres:Correct. Right. And, and you know, back to the honest conversations we have, our clients, we say, you know, just cause you're a good plumber doesn't mean you're going to be a good business owner. Um, so, you know, part of the curriculum though for the, for the sub contracting is being able to, to highlight some of those things and say, you know, this is what, uh, this is what we see good business owners in construction do, you know, and, um, and it's going to be exciting. I'm excited for it.
Gus Hoyas:I am too.
Tim Linville:I think, uh, one of the important classes is how to get paid. Collect that check. Don't just do the work. Get paid for the work.
Kenny Torres:How to estimate properly, Right.
Tim Linville:True. True. Guys, anything else you want to leave with us today?
Kenny Torres:Oh, Tim, I just, you know, just want to thank you. You know, you've been part of this for since day one and you know, we want to thank you for supporting the program, for, for supporting our efforts and, and you know, getting the word out to to construction companies and unions and the likes and the, and you know, we appreciate that.
Tim Linville:I appreciate you guys to appreciate the work you're doing. It's important work.
Gus Hoyas:Thank you again, Tim.
Tim Linville:All right. All right. Have a good day.
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